You have just lost two votes of confidence, surveys are showing that the PN is not making any inroads, and you are fighting a number of allegations. The first logical question is: why are you still here?

First of all, you have to see what consequence these votes have in the party structures. The vote in the Parliamentary Group does not lead to the removal of a party leader, and neither does the one taken by the executive. Our regulations do not allow it.

I still took the message conveyed into consideration.

Surveys are a measure of how the party is doing. One has to make an effort to understand the message because the surveys are an indication of how people will vote. Some blame the leader, others say his group, others that it was the fact that we did not click as a team. There are various theories.

When I speak of the tesserati’s vote I do not think of it as a right … as if I’m banking on it. But I have to respect the rules of the party, its organs, its members and the method of appointing leaders.

We have just renewed the statute. If there was some understanding that it should be the parliamentary group that elects the leader then we would have written the statute to reflect that.

With regard to the allegation that money was offered to the PN, the ongoing inquiry is not about me personally but about what has been alleged. If it turns out that someone misrepresented the PN then steps will be taken, but so far there is not a shred of evidence that the PN was involved.

 

There’s also the claim that you were in contact with Yorgen Fenech, and you changed your version over the past weeks …

Firstly, there is no allegation of wrongdoing, or of unethical, abusive or illegal behaviour.

I was always clear that there was no form of communication, physical, remotely or by chats after the link between Yorgen Fenech and the assassination of Daphne Caruana Galizia emerged. 

I had also said that I had never met with Fenech after the 17 Black revelations. On whether I had ever received messages – innocuous messages – I do not have a record on my phone. If I search Yorgen Fenech in my Whatsapp, nothing comes up. I have no idea if the police cut off his service, but nothing comes up on my phone.

So, are you saying that the messages published in the media were invented?

No, I did not say that. But since I have no record of them, I cannot check whether there was that kind of communication. I have already said that there had been some form of communication, but I cannot say whether it was before or after, since there is no record of it.

So, in theory there could have been communication?

Yes, it could be. I never said it couldn’t. But even if, there was nothing wrong, and from what was published, I did not always reply.

It hurts me that I’m being portrayed as if I did something wrong when there are people associated with secret companies who are still receiving thousands robbed from the people.

The opposition against you is mounting. The ‘rebel’ group of MPs includes people who were former allies of yours. Lawrence Gonzi told you to seek a vote, and Louis Galea told you to step down. Is this a case of they’re always wrong and you’re always right?

No, it’s not the case. People in certain positions have louder voices. But the people on the street say otherwise. Are we going to ignore the structure we built to give power to the people? Did we do it only to ignore it?

A year ago, I submitted myself to a confidence vote before the General Council. Support had actually increased from the vote that elected me. We asked people if they want me to lead the party into the next general election and they said yes. So how can we go against what they decided? Does their vote not count?

Are Gonzi and Galea’s voices louder than that of the people? I don’t believe so.

The party had the courage to place the choice of leader in the hands of the many, rather than the few. Why should I listen to the few and not the many?

 

So why not listen to the many again and call for another vote and get this over and done with?

I could do that, but why do you say that I would get it over and done with. That’s what I thought last year. The question was whether they wanted me to stay until the election, but it seems like there are some determined not to let me lead the party into one general election.

If there wasn’t this dissent and all these hurdles, if we worked together, if we had fought government corruption together, I believe we would have done much better in the surveys.

You can never get there if some players keep tripping their colleagues or shooting the ball into their own net. So, what is the solution? To resign? Kick people out? Should we all leave? I have a solution … let’s work together and pull the same rope.

 

But do you believe that they will pull the same rope as you? Or is the damage now irreparable?

Whether they are willing to work with me is something you would need to ask them.

Have you ever heard MPs saying that they do not agree with my policies, or that I was not strong enough on corruption? That I did not succeed on the Egrant and Vitals cases? No one is saying that. No one is saying where they do not agree with Adrian Delia.

But it seems that there are a few whose only political aim is to remove Adrian Delia for its own sake.

Do we have the ability to convince these people? Some argue that these MPs represent thousands of voters. But they were not elected with the mandate to remove me. I wasn’t even in politics back then.

I gave all of them the opportunity to work with me but, if they don’t want to, that’s their choice.

But what does this mean? Should they resign?

If I make you an offer, give you a portfolio and ask you to work with me on policies but you keep telling me no … if you don’t have faith in me it means I can’t have faith in you. If they do that, the choice of what is best for the country is up to them. I have a big responsibility, which is not to conserve myself as Opposition Leader but to see what’s best for the party as a tool to bring positive change for this country.

We cannot be a weak Opposition. The government, despite its outward image, has its own internal problems which are costing the taxpayer millions. I am not seeing any policies, any direction, any benefit for our workers and students. On the other hand, the opposition, even with this situation, is coming up with many proposals.

 

But all this is being sidelined …

Yes, but not because of me. I am involving everyone and giving opportunities to everyone. I did a reshuffle that was applauded. We are coming up with policies and proposals, we were present during COVID, and met with civil society about our proposals.

I am leading an organisation despite the punches coming from the sides, we are performing better financially, in the media, in proposals. We are no longer a one-theme party.

 

And yet, these 17 MPs and other party officials feel that this is not enough. The Opposition is not being effective in the face of the numerous government scandals because it is wasting time fighting these internal battles. Have you ever considered that resigning could be an option?

There are always options. I will go if I feel that what I’m doing goes in the wrong direction or if those who elected me no longer want me. But should I not call out those who are not doing enough, or are keeping the good that we’re doing from getting out there?

We could be using our time discussing how to improve pensions, education, infrastructure, our tourism product and new sectors to aid post-COVID recovery.

We’re still managing, but we would do much better if I found a bit of help from my friends.

If we used the coming year and a half to work together, in one direction, with the input of new faces, I am sure the survey results would change. But it is difficult for this to happen if some of your teammates hinder your work.

If you’re doing good things, you should not be the one to leave.

 

But to come to that point, you first have to solve these internal issues. You’re saying you’re willing to work with them, but they seem to be adamant on seeing you leave. Concretely, what is your plan to solve this impasse?

This Thursday, we will have another meeting of the executive and I will be putting forward concrete actions on this issue. I cannot divulge what they are at this stage. I did not warn of retribution or consequences. I said that there is space for those who want to work with us. But how can I trust those who do not want to work with me?

There were some of the shadow ministers, like Chris Said, Claudette Buttigieg, Jason Azzopardi and Therese Comodini Cachia, who declared that they have no faith in me. They did not say exactly why. They did not say it was because they disagree with, say, my ideas on divorce, abortion, social welfare … they just don’t want me.

How can you work with someone who refuses to work with you? It’s not likely that they will change their minds about me.

I am sure that there are some in that group that did not want to accept my leadership from day one and their only political aim has been to remove me. But I am also convinced that there are others who are willing to work and do not want to attack their own party.

Because, after all, this is not damaging me, it is damaging the party.

The members want me to serve, but in order to serve I need to have a team that wants to work with me and work for the benefit of the party. My responsibility is towards the party and the country.

There is absolutely nothing that should divide us ... our values and morals are the same. Only internal pique is dividing us. So, no, I do not contemplate leaving, because I think I am on the right path and, with the help of a lot of people the PN can renew itself and become an alternative government.

 

The vote by the tesserati was three years ago. Do you believe you still have the support of the majority of the party members?

There are the tesserati and there are the councillors. The test at the general council was around a year ago and, the backing increased from the previous election. Yes, I believe I still have their support. I also believe in the feedback I receive from the tesserati. But if need be, I will not shy away from asking them whether they want me to serve, but in a way in which I can work.

It is often said that we are moving towards a government with a two-thirds majority. Are you worried about this? And if we were to arrive at such a situation, do you feel that the PN, and you particularly, would have contributed to that situation?

Yes, I am worried. And if we get there, everyone, the electorate would have contributed too. I am doing my utmost for us to be a constructive opposition. I have always criticised what needed to be criticised and have always come up with ideas. I have always fought corruption, many times alone. My conscience is clear. I will not feel remorse for not trying. Everyone carries that responsibility, not just politicians, but also the people. They have to judge who is giving his everything. For as long as I have been in politics, I have dedicated every single day towards the party that I love and the country that I love even more.

 

Interview photos/video: Alenka Falzon