Former Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Affairs Minister George Vella speaks to Chiara Bonello about the situation in Libya, his fears about its uncertain future, modern threats and Europe’s economic problems.

I am still not seeing a completely liberated Libya, under the Transitional National Council, but what I do not want to see is a Libya divided in two, with perpetual tension between the two sides,” Labour MP George Vella said in an interview with this newspaper.

Dr Vella went on to say that he sees more of a possibility of someone convincing Colonel Muammar Gaddafi and his family to bow out of power. The Libyan leader could possibly stay on in Libya to avoid being sent to the International Court of Justice.

He said he personally has no objection to Col Gaddafi remaining in Libya, albeit under constant watch and in a position of no power. After all, he added, Hosni Mubarak did go to Sharm El Sheikh.

If he is forced to go elsewhere, it must be somewhere where they do not care about handing him over to the ICJ, he said, suggesting somewhere like Sudan or Venezuela.

The present Arab revolutions are interesting, in that it is not the predicted ‘clash of civilizations,’ but more of a ‘coming together of civilizations.’ They are not wars of religion, he said.

Rather, they are the yearnings of people to acquire for themselves certain basic human rights, liberties, freedoms, and opportunities. Contact with the Western world has shown them what freedom and democracy is all about, and made them want the same opportunities for themselves and their children, he said.

“I have always said it was President Zein al-Abidine Ben Ali’s predecessor, Habib Bourguiba, who actually started the revolution, when in establishing a Tunisian Republic, he introduced the right to education,” he said.

The fact is that one simply cannot go into a country and impose a democracy, but one must first appreciate the country’s history and culture, and building on the people’s aspirations guide them through the basic first steps towards democracy, he said.

Democracy is an ongoing process that grants citizens their rights and freedoms, but it sadly remains lacking in many countries.

“It is the ultimate objective, but I don’t believe it can be achieved easily, or in any short period of time,” he said, adding that even former Communist countries still feel awkward in some situations, and have some practices which are reminiscent of communism.

Turning back to Libya, Dr Vella said that a balance of power seems to have been reached, at times giving the impression that the rebels can’t do more against Col. Gaddafi’s troops.

The NATO countries are war-weary and questioning uneasily when this war will end. “Libya is complicated, and I am not seeing an imminent end to the present unrest, whichever way the war goes,” he went on.

Back when the situation started, Dr Vella said he believed there were two options: either nothing would happen in Libya, because of Col Gaddafi’s strong hold on his people through force and coercion, or that if anything started it would lead to a bloodbath.

The French launched the first attacks, and they did the right thing, he said, as otherwise we would have witnessed another Srebrenica in Benghazi, as Col Gaddafi had instructed his troops to eliminate rebels, street by street, and house by house.

Libya is an enormous territory, where the people of Tripolitania and Cyrenaica have never seen eye to eye. The Fezzan is a huge sparsely populated desert.

“Gaddafi played a lot on tribal allegiances, and on his secret services. I think perhaps the situation could have been saved by his son Saif, who at one stage was seen as moderate and westernised,” he said.

Dr Vella went on to say that he believed that had Gaddafi offered a conciliatory meeting between all sides, things might have taken a different turn. But instead, for unknown reasons, he delivered a passionate divisive and threatening speech, which made the situation go from bad to worse.

In his opinion those who were quick, early on, to say that Col Gaddafi was on his way out, as Prime Minister Lawrence Gonzi did at a press conference in Castille, had spoken prematurely, and must have miscalculated events and circumstances.

“It was clear from the beginning that Gaddafi was not just going to stand up and leave, as Ben Ali and Mubarak did,” he said.

Today it is clear that Libya is divided, with the rebels controlling a third of the country, and Col Gaddafi still having control of the other two thirds, since despite the UN resolution and NATO’s actions, Gaddafi and his forces haven’t been totally subdued.

In Libya a balance of power seems to have been reached, at times giving the impression that the rebels can’t do more against Gaddafi’s troops, Dr Vella said, adding that the NATO countries are war weary, and questioning uneasily when this war will end.

Now the French, and even the US, are speaking of the possibility of discussions with pro-Gaddafi people, he said, although everyone is making it clear that Gaddafi and his family must not be part of the equation.

Speaking of the Maltese government’s actions vis-à-vis Libya, he said that at first they were keeping the Opposition informed, but today consultation is almost negligible, and “we get the facts from the daily newspapers”.

“It is a pity as there are no major differences between us on this issue; save for perhaps us being a bit more cautious due to respect for the business interests of Maltese in Libya. We believe that it is better to keep one step back, and act judiciously, rather than quickly or in a precipitate manner,” he said.

Also the recognition of the TNC as the ‘sole’ representative was a bit early, he said, adding that perhaps they could have recognised them as ‘a very valid’ interlocutor.

As it is there is an anomaly at the moment, since the Libyan embassy remains open and the Ambassador is still fully accredited to Malta.

“In no way do I see the reinstatement of Col Gaddafi as a possibility; in view of the threats he made and things he said, and how things developed, no one will ever deal with him or accept him,” he said.

“However I believe that the solution lies in pro-Gaddafi people trying to arrive at an agreement with the rebels – maybe agreeing on how to write a constitution and on how to give people their rights and freedoms,” he went on.

Like other leaders of countries involved in the Arab revolutions, Col Gaddafi is hard headed, he ruled with fear an repression and denied people their rights – but once all this is removed, he has lost his strength.

“Libya is complicated, and I am not seeing an imminent end to the present unrest, whichever way the war goes,” he said, adding that he has always said the way the revolutions in North Africa started revealed the weakness of our secret services and our intelligence, as the West didn’t see the revolutions coming.

Dr Vella said he had always been against the EU simply throwing money at problems in North African countries, which were never subject to controls in development of human rights and fundamental freedoms.

“We turned a blind eye to breaches of human rights and repression, and when the revolts started we realised how much we had traded regional security and stability for human rights,” he said.

He also explained that in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Union for the Mediterranean, and in the Maltese Parliament, he had proposed an EU ‘ad hoc committee’ specifically to monitor that development of human rights develops pari passu, as money for development is sent to these countries from the EU.

“Once the demonstrations started, I think the government acted well and we worked together, especially in its major humanitarian role,” he said.

No one ever said that the Maltese ever agreed with Col Gaddafi’s internal or international politics or repression, he said, but there was a good relationship with the Libyan people, which is why the government should be cautious, and deal with Libyans on both sides of the divide.

“Strictly speaking whether Col Gaddafi is there or not makes no difference to us. This is a matter for the Libyan people to decide. However I believe events have passed a point of no return, considering all that has been said, and all that has happened,” he said.

* * *

Taking a trip down memory lane, Dr Vella points out that he started out in politics in 1978, and admits that a lot of things have since changed drastically, although the biggest change was probably the fall of the Berlin Wall, which was not planned or expected at that moment in time.

Before that there was a bipolar situation on a global international scale, and also political ideologies which were sharp, marked and delineated, and would control everything.

The fall of Communism brought about major change, not just in Europe; and today many former Communist countries are actually EU members. This brought about a certain peace in the EU, a military peace.

Speaking from a political viewpoint, he opines that military threats in the region have decreased, whereas other threats have emerged, such as environmental, demographical and economic problems.

“Although thank God there are no imminent threats of a military nature on the horizon, non-conventional threats such as financial and environmental problems are definitely a reality,” he said.

Awareness of the impending environmental threats was not there in the late 1980s and early 1990s, but today climate change has become a global challenge for everyone, he said, adding that this is coupled with the issue of energy supply, energy consumption, the issue of renewable versus the traditional sources of energy, and the rising cost of energy.

“They are threatening the quality of life of the future, especially if a country can’t keep up with rising energy costs,” he said.

Terrorism is another problem, he said, referring to the 11 September attacks, which changed the military commitment of Western countries and made the world aware of previously ignored, and underestimated, security threats.

“One can’t not mention the development of the European Union; a unique project which brought about economical, political and military stability in Europe,” he said.

It removed once and for all the centuries old tension between Germany and France and somehow levelled out the standard of living of countries in the euro zone, and beyond, he said.

Commenting on Turkey’s prospects of EU membership, Dr Vella said this was a difficult question, since many of today’s politicians say that if it will ever happen, it will not be before 2025.

This is a very big ‘if’ because Turkey has today achieved a unique status and has certain political and military powers, and is developing rapidly economically.

Some say it’ll be Turkey which will eventually decide not to join the EU, he said, as membership will hinder most of the initiatives and the freedom of action that Turkey is enjoying today.

On membership, Turkey would be the largest country in the EU, with the largest number of MEPs, the first Islamic member country, and one which will drain over 2/3 of agricultural funds of the EU, posing problems for the agricultural sectors in France and Eastern European countries, he said.

The mistake is to have promised them membership, as once they have satisfied the Copenhagen criteria, the promise should be honoured, he said, adding however that the quest for membership has definitively helped in spurring recent developments, including human and women’s rights in the country.

“At the present moment what is pressing is EU membership for the Balkans, as this is very important for regional stability, but I don’t exclude some form of membership for Turkey in the future,” he said.

In helping Greece, and the Greek economy, one is actually trying to defend the value of our own currency, the euro, Dr Vella said of the economic problems in Greece.

“Given the circumstances I agree with what the government is doing. Once the right measures are taken, the Greek government has given its commitment, and adequate and effective monitoring is made to ensure commitments are adhered to, Malta can’t be the odd man out,” he said.

There might be a nagging suspicion of throwing good money after bad, he said, but for countries like Germany and France, whose banks are overexposed by lending to Greece, it is in their interest to see it back on its feet.

Dr Vella said he is not scared of Italy going the same way as Greece, as austerity measures have already been approved by the Italian parliament, but Spain on the other hand is a much bigger threat, as no bailout will be strong enough for it.

Asked whether the PL is satisfied by Malta’s progress in the EU, Dr Vella said this is not a question which can be answered with a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’, but said our experience in the EU since 2004, has shown that we could have been better prepared for membership.

This is because if we had been, we could have benefited much more than we actually did.

“If asked to say a simple ‘yes’ or ‘no’ – my answer would be ‘yes, we have benefited’, but not as much as we were promised we would be, or as much as we could have been, had we not started the race lagging way behind the others in many sectors,” he said.

There are areas, such as the environment, where Malta is still lagging behind, and other areas where positive effects have been reaped, such as the stability membership has created.

Malta’s foreign policy has been through thick and thin throughout the years, with debates on integration, independence and more recently EU membership, but on other issues there were no marked divisions of opinions, he said.

Today both parties speak the same language and work together on many issues, and there is not much in today’s foreign policy which would undergo any major change in the foreseeable future, even assuming a change of government.

The PL in government would, besides focusing on EU matters and policies, explore better relationships with the BRIC countries (Brazil, Russia, India and China) for example.

Turning to immigration, Dr Vella affirms “There is definitely not enough solidarity on immigration, and the EU knows it”. He added that EU regulations do not give the Commission the right to force member states into burden sharing, as everything depends on the goodwill of member countries.

It was natural, when the bipolarity came to an end, that the development of the North became more attractive to those living in the South, he said, adding that they also became more aware of what was happening due to development in technology and better communications. Once you know exactly what’s on the other side, it becomes more lucrative.

Most people you meet during your political career leave an imprint on your mind, be it by their depth of knowledge, their manners or even their listening capacity, he said.

“Someone who impressed me immensely as a good listener was Kofi Annan. He was an attentive listener, and made sure he delivered on promises. Another politician whom I looked up to was Robin Cook. He was very energetic, intelligent, and I admired him for being outspoken,” Dr Vella said.

“In spite of their friendship, Robin Cook parted ways with Tony Blair, on the issue of the Iraq War, standing up in parliament to resign from the Cabinet. We often met in Brussels, when he would take every opportunity to tell us how right he was on the Iraq War. He was no common politician.”

Profile

• Born 24 April, 1942 at Zejtun, Malta.

• Educated at De La Salle College.

• Graduated in medicine from the University of Malta in 1964.

• Medical Officer Malta Drydocks 1966-1973.

• Demonstrator in Physiology and Biochemistry at the University of Malta 1966-1973.

• Certificate in General Aviation Medicine (Famborough UK 1977).

• Aviation Medicine consultant with Air Malta and Department of Civil Aviation 1976-1990.

• Labour Member of Parliament 1978-1987, 1992 to date.

• Returned to Parliament in 1992 and elected Deputy Leader for Parliamentary Affairs and main spokesman of the Opposition on Foreign Affairs.

• 1996-1998 Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Environment.

• Observer Member of the European Parliament prior to accession

• Opposition Main Spokesperson on Foreign and EU Affairs.

• Member of the Parliamentary Committee on Foreign and European Affairs.

• Married to Miriam nee Grima .Three children and seven grandchildren

Graduated in medicine from the University of Malta in 1964.

• Medical Officer Malta Drydocks 1966-1973.

• Demonstrator in Physiology and Biochemistry at the University of Malta 1966-1973.

• Certificate in General Aviation Medicine (Famborough UK 1977).

• Aviation Medicine consultant with Air Malta and Department of Civil Aviation 1976-1990.

• Labour Member of Parliament 1978-1987, 1992 to date.

• Returned to Parliament in 1992 and elected Deputy Leader for Parliamentary Affairs and main spokesman of the Opposition on Foreign Affairs.

• 1996-1998 Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Foreign Affairs and Environment.

• Observer Member of the European Parliament prior to accession

• Opposition Main Spokesperson on Foreign and EU Affairs.

• Member of the Parliamentary Committee on Foreign and European Affairs.

• Married to Miriam nee Grima .Three children and seven grandchildren